**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 23 20:30:33 2002 Sep 23 20:30:33 --> Mark27 ([Gh5dnFwdf@line106-15.adsl.actcom.co.il) has joined #aegis Sep 23 20:30:33 --- Topic for #aegis is aegis.sf.net - a transaction-based software configuration management system. Sep 23 20:30:33 --- Topic for #aegis set by ChanServ at Mon Sep 23 20:17:46 Sep 23 20:30:38 Hi Sep 23 20:30:48 Shlomi Fish here ? Sep 23 20:30:51 Hi, I'm Shlomi Fish Sep 23 20:30:54 Hello Sep 23 20:30:56 I'm mark Sep 23 20:31:00 rindolf is my alter-ago. Sep 23 20:31:01 I've got your email Sep 23 20:31:02 Hi mark Sep 23 20:31:07 Yes. Sep 23 20:31:13 It sounds elvish... Sep 23 20:31:36 Listen, I'm too tired now to actually do anything, but I'd like to get some concepts straights. Sep 23 20:31:51 Actually, Rindolf was the name of a Dwarf Warrior I played. Sep 23 20:31:54 (Ok. BTW: You probably know mulix - I worked with him in Qlusters) Sep 23 20:32:10 Ok...:) Sep 23 20:32:13 And of a Perl dialect I'm developing Sep 23 20:32:18 I know Muli, yes. Sep 23 20:32:32 Does muli knows aegis? Sep 23 20:32:36 Nope Sep 23 20:32:40 I know he uses BitKeeper. Sep 23 20:32:59 If you say so (I don't know what he uses) Sep 23 20:33:07 (I use Aegis extensivly) Sep 23 20:33:15 OK. I managed to get the calculator project to work. Sep 23 20:33:26 calculator ?!? Sep 23 20:33:34 But I want to import my i-bex project Sep 23 20:33:44 calculator: the example aegis project Sep 23 20:33:50 Oh...:) Sep 23 20:33:52 Ok. Sep 23 20:33:56 Make+RCS Sep 23 20:34:05 Before you start let me show you the pitfalls. Sep 23 20:34:14 Cool. Sep 23 20:34:33 The BIGGEST problem/advantage of aegis is the multi-path feature Sep 23 20:34:46 Which means? Sep 23 20:34:58 Ok. Let me give an example Sep 23 20:35:05 lets say that you want to patch the linux kernel Sep 23 20:35:13 Ack Sep 23 20:35:21 You copy a full version of the kernel beside a modified one. Sep 23 20:35:27 the diff and send the patch off Sep 23 20:35:31 then diff and send the patch off Sep 23 20:35:46 OK. Sep 23 20:35:51 This means that even for changing a SINGLE source file you need to have two copies of the ENTIRE kernel Sep 23 20:36:06 Peter Miller wanted this out of the way... Sep 23 20:36:09 Ahah. Sep 23 20:36:29 This means he wanted the "size" of the change to be proportional to the size of source+products that you're actually changing Sep 23 20:36:34 So, there are two parallel pathes. Sep 23 20:36:45 There is a "search path" for aegis... Sep 23 20:36:55 It points first to the directory where you are working Sep 23 20:36:59 and then to the master source Sep 23 20:37:16 And there is a patch in the middle Sep 23 20:37:19 This means that the directory where you are working only contains the changed files and the relevant products Sep 23 20:37:25 No - there no patch Sep 23 20:37:30 No - theres no patch Sep 23 20:37:48 Ok. Lets say that I want to work on the Linux kernel on Aegis Sep 23 20:37:55 You can phone me at 03-6424668 if you want Sep 23 20:38:02 Sure. Sep 23 20:38:05 I'm calling Sep 23 20:38:43 It's busy Sep 23 20:39:00 Yes, my sister is on. Sep 23 20:39:12 Ok. Let her talk...:) Sep 23 20:39:41 What I was saying is that if you want to work on 5 different patch to the kernel in parallel Sep 23 20:39:47 In any case, I'm too tired to get anything into this head. Sep 23 20:39:53 s/this/my/ Sep 23 20:40:00 you don't have to use diskspace=kernel space * 5...:) Sep 23 20:40:10 Ok...:) Sep 23 20:40:13 Please send me an E-mail with all your info Sep 23 20:40:21 Sure...:0 Sep 23 20:40:41 I'll contact you when I need help. Sep 23 20:40:45 BTW: Aegis is an excellent choice. I don't know the internals of BK but Aegis is terrific for very robust development Sep 23 20:40:46 Just a question: Sep 23 20:40:56 OK Sep 23 20:40:59 A question: Sep 23 20:41:16 Shoot Sep 23 20:41:22 Let's suppose I have a perl script that starts with #!/usr/bin/perl -w Sep 23 20:41:39 ok Sep 23 20:41:58 and I want developer choo, who uses an old installation of perl to work on it without the -w switch. Can it be done in Aegis? Sep 23 20:42:31 This has nothing to do with Aegis Sep 23 20:42:44 First - I usually don't code the path to perl in the first line Sep 23 20:42:52 I use a first line like this "#!/usr/bin/env perl" Sep 23 20:43:08 This means that the script will run under the first perl in the users path Sep 23 20:43:25 (this is much more robust as the user may have installed a different perl that he prefers) Sep 23 20:43:32 Mark27: I know, but let's suppose everybody is happy with #!/usr/bin/perl Sep 23 20:44:00 It could be re-incarnated in all sort of ways. Sep 23 20:44:08 I want an in-trigger and out-trigger. Sep 23 20:44:16 Ok. Let me ask you another question - how would you do it in CVS ? Sep 23 20:44:41 What I'm saying is that you have to use the regular perl mechanisms... Sep 23 20:44:54 (I think you can pass options to the perl interpreter using an envrionment variable) Sep 23 20:44:56 I'll have a separate diff, with a script that checks upon an env var, and applies it only if the env var is set. Sep 23 20:45:17 I.e: the script would be a template for the final script. Sep 23 20:45:40 Ok. Then you mean that the script is not a source but rather a product...:) Sep 23 20:45:55 Exactly. Sep 23 20:45:56 The actual script has something like [% perl_runline %] in the first line Sep 23 20:46:07 OK. Sep 23 20:46:17 And it gets transferred using Perl Template toolkit or autoconf to the script which is run... Sep 23 20:46:21 There is no problem. Sep 23 20:46:28 Just define this rule in your build system. Sep 23 20:46:32 It has nothing to do with Aegis... Sep 23 20:46:33 And can Aegis do it transparently? Sep 23 20:46:43 Aegis is NOT a build system Sep 23 20:46:51 Make is your build system (if you are using make that is) Sep 23 20:46:55 If you have a rule like: Sep 23 20:47:02 myscript.pl: myscript.input Sep 23 20:47:15 I see. Sep 23 20:47:16 trasform myscript.input > myscript.pl Sep 23 20:47:32 In your Makefile then aegis will run the build process and after the build process you could run myscript.pl Sep 23 20:48:02 And what if I modify myscript.pl? Sep 23 20:48:10 Would you modify an object file ? Sep 23 20:48:12 :) Sep 23 20:48:24 You don't modify products unless you want them overwritten the next time around Sep 23 20:48:39 No, but I was hoping for a trigger like that - Sep 23 20:48:52 a patch that would be applied upon checkout Sep 23 20:48:58 and would be unapplied upon checkin Sep 23 20:49:12 Oh!!!! Sep 23 20:49:14 I get it!!! Sep 23 20:49:19 Yes - you could do that...:) Sep 23 20:49:28 With Aegis? Sep 23 20:49:43 There is a hook in aegis for checkout and checkin and you can do ANYTHING you want to the content of the file in the script... Sep 23 20:49:54 Let me give an example Sep 23 20:50:02 I have a history listing in every file in my project Sep 23 20:50:09 An example would not be necessary at this point. Sep 23 20:50:12 When ever I checkout a file I add a history entry Sep 23 20:50:17 Peter Miller kicks ass! Sep 23 20:50:30 Did you have any experience with BitKeeper? Sep 23 20:50:37 Nope...:) Sep 23 20:50:54 I think (from reading LKML) that BK is better at patches... Sep 23 20:51:04 Mark27: you should try it sometimes for something not so serious. Sep 23 20:51:07 (Removing old patches after new ones went in and various other stuff) Sep 23 20:51:25 The biggest strength of Aegis is that it helps you do things right... Sep 23 20:51:27 It feels very slick, and is very nice. Sep 23 20:51:35 (BK doesn't have that) Sep 23 20:51:52 For instance: aegis won't let you commit changes which don't compile or pass tests Sep 23 20:52:32 And we should rob ideas out of it. Sep 23 20:52:33 Also the multi-path feature is an advantage as far as I see it... Sep 23 20:53:03 OK. Got to sleep now. Talk to you later. Sep 23 20:53:08 (NO other, and I mean NO OTHER SCS has that feature...:) Sep 23 20:53:27 Ok. Good night. I'll send you my contact info... Sep 23 20:53:31 It was fun. Sep 23 20:53:41 Sure...:) Sep 23 20:53:43 Yes, please do that, I'll keep your last E-mail. Sep 23 20:53:50 Bye!!! Sep 23 20:53:52 Bye bye Sep 23 20:53:55 <-- rindolf has quit ("[x]chat") **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 23 20:54:02 2002 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 25 15:00:18 2002 Sep 25 15:00:18 --> Mark27 ([yTL58nCyc@line106-15.adsl.actcom.co.il) has joined #aegis Sep 25 15:00:18 --- Topic for #aegis is aegis.sf.net - a transaction-based software configuration management system. Sep 25 15:00:18 --- Topic for #aegis set by ChanServ at Wed Sep 25 14:36:29 Sep 25 15:00:23 Shlomi ? Sep 25 15:00:55 >rindolf< CTCP TIME Sep 25 15:01:10 >rindolf< CTCP FINGER Sep 25 15:02:14 Hello ?!? Sep 25 15:11:33 Hi Mark Sep 25 15:11:36 Mark27: Hi! Sep 25 15:14:41 Hi Sep 25 15:14:51 (Went to the bathroom) Sep 25 15:14:58 Hi Sep 25 15:15:06 You can ignore my DCC Chat offer if you wish Sep 25 15:15:21 Can I call you somewhere? Sep 25 15:15:22 Ok. It's simpler to talk here. Sep 25 15:15:51 You can try but I think my portable phone is dead (battery). Sep 25 15:15:58 OK. I can send you the BitKeeper snapshot as of now. Sep 25 15:16:16 BitKeeper snapshot of what ? Sep 25 15:16:17 BTW, it seems my projects repositories somehow disappeared from bkbits.net Sep 25 15:16:26 What ?!? Sep 25 15:16:26 Of the code I'm working on. Sep 25 15:16:30 Did you have backups ? Sep 25 15:17:01 I did. Of the entire repositories. But still they were filled with data, and I did not instruct Larry & Co. to remove them. Sep 25 15:17:22 Did they do that on purpose ? Sep 25 15:17:41 I have no idea. I sent an E-mail to support@bitkeeper.com and received no reply as of yet. Sep 25 15:17:42 (I thought bkbits.net was a sourceforge like deal for GPLd code...) Sep 25 15:18:05 Which is expected, because they are on San-Fransisco Time Sep 25 15:18:20 Oh ok. Sep 25 15:18:30 It was sort-of. But once I opened a repository and did not fill it in and it also disappear. Sep 25 15:19:02 This I can understand (they don't to hold hundreds of empty repositories) Sep 25 15:19:03 I don't know. I like McVoy less and less as time goes by. Sep 25 15:19:19 Me too Sep 25 15:19:30 But my repositories were filled in and quite active Sep 25 15:19:47 That's a whole different ball game. Do they do backups on a regular basis ? Sep 25 15:19:48 I did piss him off quite a bit Sep 25 15:19:57 They do, yes. Sep 25 15:20:12 HOPEFULLY it was an honest mistake...:) Sep 25 15:20:16 In any case, nothing important was lost Sep 25 15:20:34 Never mind. I'd like to try Aegis again. Sep 25 15:20:40 Ok. Shoot. Sep 25 15:20:44 I looked at arch, and could not make heads nor tails of it. Sep 25 15:20:56 It is way too complicated, even for me? Sep 25 15:21:03 Do you read "Joel on Software"? Sep 25 15:21:03 Ok. Can't help you with that. Never looked at it. Sep 25 15:21:22 No I didn't. Can you give me a URL ? Sep 25 15:21:37 Sure. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/ Sep 25 15:21:57 Is this an article or a slashdot type system ? Sep 25 15:22:01 Joel Spolsky is contreversial, but I think he is also very wise. At least most of the time. Sep 25 15:22:17 He has a diary there. Sep 25 15:22:21 Or a weblog Sep 25 15:22:29 But look at the complete archive. Sep 25 15:22:39 He has several articles there. Sep 25 15:22:53 The one about UI Design for Programmers is especially enlightening Sep 25 15:23:14 Ok. I'll check them out. Sep 25 15:23:21 What did he code ? Sep 25 15:24:00 He worked at Microsoft (on Visual Basic for Apps), Viacom and Juno and now has his own software house called FogCreek software. Sep 25 15:24:11 Is he pro open source ? Sep 25 15:24:19 He's also a former Israeli Parachuter, and he's gay? Sep 25 15:24:19 (Or even free source ?) Sep 25 15:24:29 :) Sep 25 15:24:35 Sure, he uses CVS, and admits he has several Linux servers. Sep 25 15:24:40 So I guess it's Yoel... Sep 25 15:24:52 I call him djoel. Sep 25 15:25:07 Ok. I'll read...:) Sep 25 15:25:09 And so does everybody I know, but he insists that it's yoel in Hebrew. Sep 25 15:25:44 Nevermind. Joel once said that "If you don't understand a SPEC - don't worry. Nobody else will". Sep 25 15:26:07 So I'm not too worried about Arch Sep 25 15:26:14 I'll wait for Version 1.2.0 Sep 25 15:26:36 Sounds reasonable. Sep 25 15:26:52 I translated some of Joel's articles for him to Hebrew with help from the good Hackers-IL guys Sep 25 15:27:09 In any case, let's get to business: getting my project into Aegis. Sep 25 15:27:17 Is "hackers-il" a different list than "linux-il" ? Sep 25 15:27:28 Ok... Shoot Sep 25 15:27:41 Do you have aegis installed ? Sep 25 15:28:23 Ahah. Check: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackers-il/ Sep 25 15:28:40 Yep. From the RPM. Could not compile the source RPM because of the Icon. Sep 25 15:28:53 I can send you a snapshot of my work. Sep 25 15:29:17 (regarding hackers-il - I'll join it). Sep 25 15:29:32 Regarding Aegis installation - I never install anything from srpm Sep 25 15:29:36 Basically: it's a perl script, two boards with layouts, several gimp .xcf files, and a perl script that generates pngs out of them. Sep 25 15:29:37 Either from source or from rpm Sep 25 15:29:53 Mark27: hackers-il is lots of fun. Sep 25 15:30:04 IMHO, at least Sep 25 15:30:23 You'll have a better experiece with installing Aegis from sources. Sep 25 15:30:36 After ./configure;make Sep 25 15:30:42 You can check aegis using "make sure" Sep 25 15:30:58 Mark27: Aegis builds using Cook, right? Sep 25 15:31:10 Which will run about 180 tests which last about 40 minutes and makes sure that Aegis is running right on YOUR machine Sep 25 15:31:39 No. You get a makefile. (Peter uses cook but you don't have to know about it) Sep 25 15:32:04 Peter didnt want to make cook a prerequisite to Aegis Sep 25 15:32:19 (that would discouraged a lot of users) Sep 25 15:32:50 OK, went out to check E-mail Sep 25 15:33:07 Ok. Sep 25 15:33:11 Do you know Dave Goehrig? Sep 25 15:33:15 Nope Sep 25 15:33:32 The Perl/SDL guy. Nice guy, but we are complete opposites. Sep 25 15:34:03 In any case, how do I start putting them into Aegis? Sep 25 15:34:10 Did you create a project ? Sep 25 15:34:17 How do I do that? Sep 25 15:34:29 Ok. I guess you didn't...:) Sep 25 15:34:38 Did you add aegis shortcuts to your bash ? Sep 25 15:34:53 (I assume that you are using bash - tell me if you are not) Sep 25 15:34:55 I installed from rpm, so I don't think so. Sep 25 15:35:05 Ok. Good. Sep 25 15:35:09 I use bash, yes. tcsh is crap and zsh is too bloated. Sep 25 15:35:22 Please let me know if you did ANYTHING with aegis up to this point. Sep 25 15:35:37 I unpacked the example with make and rcs Sep 25 15:35:45 And that's it ? Sep 25 15:35:49 and built it to get a nice calculator Sep 25 15:35:54 Yes, that's it. Sep 25 15:36:04 Did you build it as an Aegis project ? Sep 25 15:36:15 What do you mean by that? Sep 25 15:36:16 (did you actually use aegis and created a project for it ?) Sep 25 15:36:22 I just typed make. Sep 25 15:36:36 Ok. Then what you did has nothing to do with Aegis. Sep 25 15:36:52 The idea was to show how to write correct aegis configuration...:) Sep 25 15:36:53 It was on the Aegis site. Sep 25 15:36:57 aedist and all. Sep 25 15:37:08 How did you unpack the aedist file ? Sep 25 15:37:15 (cpio ?!?) Sep 25 15:37:21 The way the webpage said so. Sep 25 15:37:33 Ok. So you DID use Aegis. Sep 25 15:37:45 Let's say I know nothing about Aegis except what you told me. Sep 25 15:37:49 You did something like aegis -Import or something....:) Sep 25 15:37:52 Mark27: yes I di. Sep 25 15:38:06 I know about the -Project and stuff like that Sep 25 15:38:09 Ok. So you probably already have one project registered with aegis (the example one) Sep 25 15:38:25 Ok. Now well set up short cuts for aegis operations for you. Sep 25 15:38:30 Yes. But I want to create an altogether new one for my perl game. Sep 25 15:38:32 do "type ael" on the cmdline Sep 25 15:38:42 Ok... were getting there. Sep 25 15:38:56 (meaning check if ael is a recognized shortcut ?) Sep 25 15:39:02 ael is a function Sep 25 15:39:08 Great...:) Sep 25 15:39:12 ael is a function Sep 25 15:39:12 ael () Sep 25 15:39:12 { Sep 25 15:39:12 aegis -l "$@" -v Sep 25 15:39:12 } Sep 25 15:39:29 All commands in aegis start with "ae" Sep 25 15:39:38 you can do "ae"[tab] to see a list. Sep 25 15:39:39 I noticed that, yes. Sep 25 15:39:56 Mark27: I know. :) Sep 25 15:39:58 ok. Do "ael projects" to see your projects. Sep 25 15:40:23 Geez: lots of junk: example . example.1 test test.2 Sep 25 15:40:33 (I'm sorry if I'm saying things which are obvious I just don't want you to miss anything and think that Aegis sucks as a result...:) Sep 25 15:40:47 Mark27: no problem. Sep 25 15:40:54 ok. Do you want to remove them all ? (I think it would be cleaner that way) Sep 25 15:41:06 Mark27: sure. if it can't hurt Sep 25 15:41:39 It can't hurt if you didn't add anything important to these projects. Sep 25 15:41:53 Mark27: I have a great design for a new logo in mind, but it will probably take me ages to do it in the gimp. Sep 25 15:42:17 That would be cook. Sep 25 15:42:20 That would be cool...:) Sep 25 15:42:24 (sorry...:) Sep 25 15:42:31 Freudian Slip. Sep 25 15:42:40 Ok. Do "aegis -ReMove_PRoject [project name]" to remove any old projects. Sep 25 15:43:10 or for short "aermpr [project_name]" Sep 25 15:43:29 it says for example that there are outstanding changes Sep 25 15:43:41 Ok. This means that you need to remove them too. Sep 25 15:43:53 Mark27: how do I do that? Sep 25 15:44:04 You know forget about cleaning them up for the while. Sep 25 15:44:14 Let's create a new one for I-Bex Sep 25 15:44:18 Ok. Sep 25 15:44:23 (that's the name of the game) Sep 25 15:44:32 aenpr [project_name] Sep 25 15:44:43 OK. Sep 25 15:44:47 (or Aegis -New_Project [project_name]) Sep 25 15:44:48 And where would it put it? Sep 25 15:45:00 Ok. A little explanation. Sep 25 15:45:05 Aegis is running suid. Sep 25 15:45:09 I want it somewhere under $HOME/Projects/Aegis Sep 25 15:45:24 This means there is a user called aegis which is in charge of the repositories Sep 25 15:45:36 That's is exactly the point. Sep 25 15:45:53 The idea in aegis is that you (the user which you are) could NOT change the master source even you want to. Sep 25 15:46:08 (you would only be able to change the source via the regular aegis mechanisms) Sep 25 15:46:27 (and ofcourse - as root - but that is not playing by the rules) Sep 25 15:47:24 OK. Understood. Sep 25 15:47:28 Checkout the -Directory flag if you want everything in your account...:) Sep 25 15:47:37 (But then you don't get the benefits) Sep 25 15:47:46 In any case, is this channel logged? Sep 25 15:47:56 I don't know...:) Sep 25 15:47:58 it could help newbies eventually? Sep 25 15:48:15 I log all my Xchat conversations so I have a transcript. Sep 25 15:48:29 Good. send it to me when you're done. Sep 25 15:48:32 Sure. Sep 25 15:48:55 Did you create the project ? Sep 25 15:49:09 OK. Let's suppose i want to create a project named i-bex under directory ~/Projects/Aegis - what do I do? Sep 25 15:49:19 Exact command please. Sep 25 15:49:29 aenpr i-bex -Directory ~/Projects/Aegis Sep 25 15:49:41 (you may need to create the directory first - I'm not sure) Sep 25 15:50:08 (It's been quite some time since I last created a new project...:) Sep 25 15:50:20 It says: aegis: mkdir("/home/shlomi/Projects/Aegis/", 02755): File exists] Sep 25 15:50:29 Oh ok...:) Sep 25 15:50:32 I guess I need ~/Projects/Aegis/i-bex Sep 25 15:50:40 Then remove it...:) (it probably wants to create it itself...:) Sep 25 15:50:49 Oh. Sep 25 15:51:07 OK. It worked. Sep 25 15:51:16 great. do you see it in ael projects ? Sep 25 15:51:29 Wait a sec, let me play some mp3's (which you can't hear, but at least I can) Sep 25 15:51:39 (it should appear as 3 lines...) Sep 25 15:52:32 Yes i-bex, i-bex.1 and i-bex.1.0 Sep 25 15:53:16 Great. Why is it three lines ? Because it already created a perliminary branch for you...:) Sep 25 15:53:30 (Just in case you forget and want to branch afterwards and find out that you cant...) Sep 25 15:53:32 Mark27: cool. Good human eng. Sep 25 15:54:02 It also gave a version... Sep 25 15:54:21 You don't have to use that version inside your product Sep 25 15:54:35 Mark27: of course. Sep 25 15:54:37 (You can have a totally different version for your product coded inside your product) Sep 25 15:54:44 Now how do I put files in there? Sep 25 15:54:50 BUT!!! It's better to use the aegis version...:) Sep 25 15:55:09 Then you can translate bug reports to the EXACT source that produced the version in question...:) Sep 25 15:55:15 Just a thought...:) Sep 25 15:55:17 Mark27: that's ok I like the ver.txt version management. Sep 25 15:55:45 And I can write a Perl script to look the version Aegis gave me. Sep 25 15:55:51 Ok. But then you need to remmember to bump it yourself and you do the translation between the content of "ver.txt" and the source that produce it yourself...:) Sep 25 15:56:12 Sure you can. There are several perl scripts which interface Aegis (I'm the author of one) Sep 25 15:56:20 You can even write one yourself...:) Sep 25 15:56:33 Mark27: I'll look for one. Sep 25 15:56:40 Finding out what aegis knows about AYNTHING involves running the "aesub" command. Sep 25 15:57:12 Ok. Now you want to start working I guest....:) Sep 25 15:57:23 Mark27: I think we're digressing. Let's put files Sep 25 15:57:32 in the repository I mean. Sep 25 15:57:36 Yes. Sep 25 15:57:41 Create your first change. Sep 25 15:57:48 How? Sep 25 15:58:00 you do it using "aenc" Sep 25 15:58:09 (aegis -New_Change) Sep 25 15:58:12 Where should I run it? Sep 25 15:58:22 Where ever you want. Sep 25 15:58:29 Where do you want to change to reside ? Sep 25 15:58:38 I mean in which directory? Sep 25 15:59:01 Yep... Sep 25 15:59:04 aegis: you must give the project name explicitly to this command Sep 25 15:59:14 That's the error I received Sep 25 15:59:29 I'm sorry that I'm wasting so much of your time. Sep 25 15:59:35 yep. aenc -Project i-bex [change_number] Sep 25 15:59:49 BTW, can I put this transcript online as part of the "Better CVS" project? Sep 25 15:59:49 (you can leave out the change number and accept the default if you want. Sep 25 15:59:58 Sure... Sep 25 16:00:43 OK. Now I have a joe (my favourite editor screen) opened and what do I do there? Sep 25 16:01:07 Does it show various details that you need to fill in ? Sep 25 16:01:14 yes, Sep 25 16:01:28 Ok. You can leave most of them with the defaults. Sep 25 16:01:29 brief_description: initial_version ? Sep 25 16:01:41 Exactly...:) Sep 25 16:02:03 Done: Sep 25 16:02:08 aegis: project "i-bex": change 10: create Sep 25 16:02:16 Great. Sep 25 16:02:23 You are now the proud owner of a change. Sep 25 16:02:36 The change directory is NOT yet created. Sep 25 16:02:43 Good. But I don't have any files in it yet. Sep 25 16:02:53 You have not started development on the change - only stated that such a change needs to exist and logged it Sep 25 16:03:00 Wait...:) Sep 25 16:03:03 ok Sep 25 16:03:16 no start developing it using "aedb" or "Develop Begin". Sep 25 16:03:23 sorry - now start developing it using "aedb" or "Develop Begin". Sep 25 16:03:42 Give it the change number (10) Sep 25 16:04:24 But it does so for the wrong project. Sep 25 16:04:30 "example" Sep 25 16:04:40 Is there anyway I can change the default project to i-bex Sep 25 16:04:41 Ok. ok. Don't panick...:) Sep 25 16:04:45 Yes. Sep 25 16:05:05 export AEGIS_PROJECT=i-bex Sep 25 16:05:18 Now you don't have to put -Project on every command...:) Sep 25 16:05:43 Mark27: Excellent! (to quote that duo whose names I cannot remember) Sep 25 16:05:50 Todd and something Sep 25 16:06:09